Subs is CRAP

[supertom]

(Before I start my rant, I loved subculture, back at the old academy 5-6 years ago. I usually went at least once a month and I celebrated both my 19th and 20th Birthday there and thoroughly enjoyed both nights. But then you seemed to "sell out", and I could never understand why.)

So anyway, I went to subculture last night. And it was the shittiest night I've ever had there. I won't be going again unfortunately and neither will all of my friends. We'll be going to Eddies from now on I think. Let me explain my disappointment.

1. The main room is ALWAYS closed, (except for main events) and for what reason? Nobody knows. Maybe because the staff can't be f***ed to clean it up afterwards? This means everyone has to squeeze into the smaller rooms. Why not just open 1 small room and the main room??

2. The cider is ludicrously expensive, so I have to settle with either alcopops or watered down lager. Maybe this isn't Subcultures fault, or maybe it is? I'm not sure. But I do know that Scruffies pub sell Strongbow for £1.50 per pint. In subs it is £3.80 per pint (What. The. F***). Who in their right mind will pay that?

3. And the music? HAH. The music is the real killer for me. I go to the "UK's Biggest Rock Night" to, believe it or not, listen to rock music, not the f***ing prodigy, dizee rascal or Jay-Z. What has happened to the music? Seriously? Back 5 or 6 years ago, it was always rock music and heavy metal played throughout the night. And you even had a room for ska music (loved it). But now? Now the "UK's Biggest Rock Night" is all this dance and trance shite you play as soon as the clock strikes midnight...right when people start getting drunk I suppose?

4. Handing in my jacket costs me £1.50 (used to be £1).

Here's something funny I noticed last night. I was in the room upstairs last night and my friend and I noticed the DJ was just standing playing with his phone for a good 15 mins. He also walked off the stage for 5 mins or so. He was so distracted by his phone he played the same song twice within 10 minutes. What a great DJ, he really knows how to work the crowd doesn't he! We then sat down for a while, then I looked over at the dance floor and laughed...it was EMPTY. Not one single person dancing. Not even a drunken tap of the foot. Nobody was dancing, and this was at "peak time" as well, around about 12:30am. We left at about 12:45am. We'd had enough.

Before I finish, I'd just like to say that just as we arrived another friend of mine asked a security guy why the main room was closed, and he just goes "urr because it's gonna be a quiet one." Well, you know why? Because it's CRAP now. New subs is dead. A waste of money. Bring back the old one. Because, before you know it, the "UK's Biggest Rock Night" will become the "UK's Smallest Trance Night".

[celery]

prodigy, dizzee rascal or Jay-Z aren't trance mate

[supertom]

A cookie goes to you for completely missing the point of my entire post.

[supertom]

Oh, also, that "DJ" playing with his phone? Yeh, he played the same song twice within 10 mins. Fantastic. I'll edit that into my first post.

[Cactus Sam™]

Not a fan of variety i take it? Ever thought that people want to hear rock music and maybe a few different tracks as well? Jay-Z and Prodigy are two artists who have crossed over and gained fans in the 'rock music' subculture, due to many different factors. Dizzee Rascal, while i'm not a fan of his newer stuff, it's another club track that most people love and usually fills the dance floor whenever i've heard it played at Subs.

The main room being closed i'll agree is annoying but hey sure there's a reasonable explanation. The DJ playing with his phone, are you kidding? Do you want him speaking between every track? That can be a right buzz kill sometimes, as for the track played twice if it was a fan favourite maybe it was a fan favourite and there was an influx of people coming in? Give the guy a break, never used your phone at work?

The drinks ARE over priced, but thats the venues fault, it does suck having to drink the house whiskey because Jack Daniels is like 6 quid for a double.

I'm not playing the blind defender of the place, i have been and had a shoddy time, it happens, but i'd say your arguements for the most part are things beyond the people who runs Subs control. Cept for the music, but when you argue about that you just come off as one of the kids who used to complain about the music played at Teenculture just cause you don't enjoy it doesn't mean others share the same view.

[supertom]

Please don't patronise me.

Of course I am a fan of musical diversity (listening to NeYo now, HAH) but Subs HAS changed and there is no denying that. You could ask all of my friends, and friends of my friends, who have all been to subs recently and really didn't enjoy it. My friends are rockers. We all go to a rock club to listen to that kind of music, like we have done MANY times in the past, but at this new Subs we can't. It's getting quieter and quieter each time we go, maybe this is the recession we have been in, I'm not too sure. But I know for a fact that the choice in music won't help. Hey, maybe it's because I don't like change, I'm not sure. But I do know that changing the music that a, what, 10 year old rock club (?) plays, then this WILL upset a lot of the older fans. Try going to Scruffies or The Black Horse and ask them to play Jay-Z on a Saturday night, I bet those pubs would become less popular too.

Now come on, playing with your phone at work is ok, if you're working in an office or a furniture store. But this is a professional DJ we're talking about here, playing a big club in the country's second biggest city. Not just some local pub in Chelmsley Wood. One lapse in concentration and he balls something up that people will notice, like he did Saturday night. Hardly professional. Sure, we all make mistakes! But I can't have any sympathy for him when he's stood on the stage texting people for a good 15 minutes. And I can assure you the song was not a huge favourite, there were very little people dancing to it, and this was in one of the smaller rooms at peak time.

I don't want to have any arguments here. I was just expressing my opinion, albeit a little harsh, but we went to celebrate my girlfriends birthday and came away bored and sober.

[Russ]

As it happens I just had a txt off my mate Danni asking about my weekend and without prompt she said "Subs was shit...played Dizee all night"

How much was played that it was so noticeable?!

[celery]

i dont even remember hearing dizzee rascal on saturday

[BIG Jim (DJ)]

i played one track of dizzee right at the start so i have no idea what ya on about!

[DaveDJ]

I replied to this on Facebook but for the sake of completeness here goes:

Wow! I have one Saturday off and this happens....

Seriously, Tom, perhaps you should take a read of an interview I did and posted earlier on this page ( www.scenenotheard.co.uk ) which deals with the current situation facing all rock bars & clubs.

As for Prodigy & Pendulum, well they are rock club staples really now and the inclusion of both bands on the front covers of mags such as Kerrang, Rock Sound, Metal Hammer & Big Cheese would justify their inclusion on any rock club playlist. They may not be to your taste but clearly appeal to most broad minded rock fans. Incidentally, hence both bands inclusion on Download Festival schedules over recent years.... See More

As for our flyers, we put 'Birmingham's Biggest Rock & Alternative Night', we don't put 'only' on there anywhere. As the originator of 'Eddies' and a friend of Shaun Walsh who started up Anarchy, I'm fully aware of both clubs.

Simply put, when we first announced that Subculture may close 1600+ people signed up to two fan pages supporting Subculture within a week or so, but only 700 turned up last Saturday which kind of justifies the decision by the Academy bosses to make it rooms 2 & 3 for that week. As I put in the interview there is a terrible recession in this country right now which has affected all clubs & bars throughout the UK and subsequently Subculture is amongst them. Accordingly we have to 'cut our cloth' to suit and to keep thye club going for those that do come along every week, not just birthdays and special occasions.

Subculture will be carrying on for the foreseeable future, though there will be weeks when it will be in rooms 2 & 3, and we have more ideas of nights to put on for those that want something a little different, some of which will be announced real soon.

[jellysocks]

There are plenty of clubs that play "alternative" music in town, I could easily visit one of them. And yes, it's true, many people may like that music (although the dance floor says otherwise) there seems to be very few places rockers can go to listen to music they like.
A few years back Subculture never played this type of music, and I don't see why it has suddenly started appealing to these crowds.
Perhaps the main room being closed wouldn't have been a problem if there was a room to listen to good music in, and the songs were obviously played enough for it to make an impact in people's minds, I saw many people walk in and walk out just as quickly.

[DaveDJ]

Y'know, I've just checked the actual playlist from last week and the set list reveals:
Dizzee - Bonkers
Prodigy - Invaders
Chase & Status - Pieces
Hadouken - 'song illegible'...
Beasties - Intergalactic
3OH3! - Starstruck
A Day To Remember - Plot to Blow Up...
then it veers off into nu-metal.
So unless Tom thinks that Chase, Hadouken or 3OH3 were Dizzee songs all of this thread was complete bollocks really....

[supertom]

I love your attitude Dave, very professional. But can I ask why you are playing those kinds of songs? Is it because they're shoved down our (rockers) throats in magazines like Kerrang, Rock Sound or Metal Hammer? So we don't have much choice but to "accept" them into the rock culture. They are not rock music. A lot of subculture fans/rockers hate this kind of music, myself included. But you do insist on playing them in the club, which (I doubt you will disagree) is now quieter than it was 7 or 8 years ago. Wonder why?

This thread is not bollocks. It is criticism. Something which you do not take very well. You are completely missing my point. I never meant to imply that you were literally playing Dizzee songs all night.

Christ.

[wilvincent]

First of all, what is with the whole rock purism?

I'm going to answer this point by point in more detail than i did before, as I don't think your just being very unfair to a lot of people.

1: The staff can be ******. We now have a relatively small team, and we work bloody hard for our money. We sometimes work 11+ hour shifts, doing a busy show, then clubnight, yet we still put our back into making sure you have as decent a time as possible. It's not our fault that the main room is closed, and to be fair to all sides, no one group or person is to blame at all (This we can go into more detail below).
And if you didn't drop your cup on the floor after every pint, we may be able to clean up a bit quicker..... We're bar staff, not slaves.

Why is the room closed? I can't provide the answers, but I can say it does look a bit silly when you have the main room open and only 6/700 people turn up over 3 rooms. Dave did say, come or they won't open it, and people didn't come. They tried for a whole month....

2: The beer is NOT watered dwon. It never has been, and never will be. Remember your talking about the biggest live music group in the country before you start making accusations like that. Scruffies sell strongbow for £1.50 a pint? Think aboout the bigger picture for a minute.
Scruffies is a much smaller place than the Academy, and therefore, when they put a keg of Strongbow on tap, they need to make sure they can sell it before it goes stale, and people complain (Because somehow, people complain about EVERYTHING). Therefore, if they sell it at £3 a pint, like most places (Wetherspoons sells it for £2.45, and they are known to generally be the cheapest place in the country apart from student pubs), they will LOSE money having to chick a load of shitty cider away. Selling it cheaper means they can sell it. I'm not implying you get shit cider at Scruffies before you try to say that, I'm saying that the lower price encourages people to buy it and therefore they can make a profit. It's called Tesco Marketing.

Now, back to subs. We sell Gaymers. Thats not something either the Academy, or Subs can fully choose. The reason why it's £3.80 is because that is what people have to pay at a gig. I know it's expensive and I won't deny that, but that price is the same up and down the country at AMG venues and beyond (The Forum in London to name one that also charges that much). I can pretty much guarentee that cider's always been expensive, even 5-6 years ago.

On the other hand, Sub's drinks prices have got even better. Not blowing anyones trumpet, but look:

Carlsberg: £1.60
VK's: £1.60
Single and mixer: £1.60 (Inc REAL red bull)
DOUBLE and mixer: £2.60 (Inc REAL Red Bull: NEW DEAL)
Shots: ALL £2

Some people will always end up having to pay slightly more than others to drink (Those who don't drink booze pay the most to be fair.), but in life everything is swings and roundabouts.

3: Again. Subculture is A Rock Night, but every flyer and the site says "Rock And Alternative"

Now we can debate till the end what constitutes rock and what constitutes Alternative, but there are some serious important points to make.

Rock ISN'T tacky mass produced pop. We can't have two shows a year on ITV dedicated to it, with millions of people watching. We can't be (Almost) certain of getting a number one every time we release an album or single. We don't work for the money, we live for the music. It's what we do. Rock is one big family. Our family however is small. We're the minority. Think back to when you were at school, and you were one of a handful of rockers. Then fast forward to today.

It simply IS NOT possible to have a rock night that only plays one genre of music. There's not enough people who can put their hands into their back pocket to come out every week AND drink. Look at the asylum? Are they going to play rock at their club night? No: Punk Rock, Emo, and Hardcore.

And this is the point. Music has changed since we grew up, and we have to accept that. We are no longer in the grunge era, or the pop punk era, or the Nu-Metal era, or the Rebirth of heavy Metal era or even the emo era anymore. Whilst it's great to think about the memories, we have to see where we are today to be able to look forward.

And if you want something played, ASK! If it's heavy, Academy 3 WILL play it. If it's more mainstream, Academy 2 will PROBERBLY play it, so long as they have the time, as they do get A LOT of requests.

One one other note, The Prodigy: Alternative in my books. Pendulum: Before the world knew who they were, alternative. Chase and Status: Somehow become a Subs weekly track, but people ASK for it LOTS. Dizzie: Alternative (And don't even bother arguing on that). Jay-Z (I'm guessing it was with Linkin Park): The sort of thing we should be embracing, not shunning, as that album created a hell of a lot of bridges.

STOP THE ROCK PURISM!

4: There are 3 DJ's on stage at any one time. Simples.

5: Why do people not turn up. This is the question no one seems to understand, but David answers rather well.

We are not rich little indie kids, with mom and dads money to burn. We're rockers, often discriminated in society, and having to work our fingers to the bone for one measly pint. Now. A lot of us can't afford to go out every week, and find it more fun saving up for the big nights.

I salute the 300 people I see every week. I feel like we should be on first name terms (I am with a few), however that cant be expected of everyone. We were in a reccession, things are not much better, and whilst the threat of Cameron being PM is looming over our very heads (In the case of subside, Litterally. Go in the fag area and look skywards), it's not going to get any better. People Can't afford to go out, but Rockers are one of the worst groups hit. Simple. We can't blame Dave, rather commend him for putting his arse on the line to try and do what you guys want. We can't blame AMG, as they don't put a filter on the doors or anything, and they do appreciate Subs for what it is. We can't blame the music, as if things never changed, my guess is it would have died years ago, and we can't blame the fans. It's not their fault they are skint.

Try to stop being all negative, and realise that the situations not great. There is a finate number of us, and we need to stick together.

[uptowntopranking]

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I believe you hit every nail on the head with that last post wilvincent. Good posting.

Its a good thing that musicians arent as purist as some of their fans are. The thing that has kept rock music alive for at least the last 20 years (actually longer - Public Enemy and Anthrax anyone) has been a willingness to experiment and steal from other genres. If it hadnt been for all of the different branches of alternative metal throughout the '90s (industrial-metal, goth metal, rap metal, funk metaland so on) we wouldnt even be having this conversation now because heavy music would have died years ago.